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Guest post: My ill-fated evening in Southampton – Britain’s big brother capital

Walker Recently I had the misfortune of being invited for a night out in Southampton.

This visit was a real eye-opener to me and taught me how much the ‘Big Brother’ society is starting to negatively impact on our day to day lives. I also had a lesson in how little power we have to challenge the people who are doing this.

Let’s start with the basics: it is not possible to have a night out in Southampton without carrying some form of identification.

The types that the bars and clubs accept are: a 'Prove it' card (which at 30 I am too old to have), a driving licence (I don’t drive) or a passport (which in line with Home Office guidelines I use for immigration purposes only!). Without one of these documents, snarling bouncers will refuse you entry to almost every club or bar, even if you the last time you got IDed John Major was still Prime Minister!

So my night out began by one charitable doormen “turning a blind eye” to the fact I couldn’t prove I was over 18.  My 30 year old face and girth was apparently not enough evidence on its own. On to another bar and door staff helpfully told me that it was discrimination to only ID people who looked young.  Apparently they’d have merrily turned away a pensioner! 

Whilst trying to find a bar that would let me in I noticed many seemed to be operating a system called 'Club Scan'. This system helpfully copies your passport details and leaves them with the club. Luckily I was unable to join in because I couldn’t produce any ID they were interested in. As I tramped round in the rain I pondered what would happen if this precious database were stolen.

On to a Club called Bliss.  Once again an angry bouncer took exception to me daring to suggest that looking 30 was enough evidence of age. Regardless of what I said, I wasn't coming in. I was soaked to the bone, hacked off and far more alcohol-free than I had hoped to be at 11pm on a Saturday… So I decided to go home.

Like every customer put in this position by Southampton’s draconian rules I resolved never to return, but unlike others I thought I’d investigate further what had happened to create this Big Brother Nightmare.

First I called the Council; they told me that it was pure coincidence that every bar in the City Centre operated the same rule. I pointed out that many of the bars in Southampton had branches elsewhere that didn’t operate similar rules, how could this be? What’s unique about Southampton or the officials that run licensing there? The council suggested that the Police might know.so I 'phoned Hampshire Constabulary and was told that the Licensing Department at the Council “strongly encourage this as best practise”. I wondered how willing bars are to refuse anything that is “encouraged” by Licensing Inspectors? I also asked them whether having thousands of people carry their passports on a night out presented any concerns about border security… I received a non-descript response.

Now it was time to call a bar/club.  I could remember Bliss so I thought I’d give them a shout. It’s fair to say that the Manager was bemused by my call. He assured me that there was no formal policy to force bars to ask everyone for ID, but it was very strongly encouraged. He also helpfully suggested that in future I could call in advance and he would waive the ID rule just for me. Thanks but no thanks!

So now I knew the truth it was time for action,

I registered to speak at full Council challenging the policy of encouraging bars and clubs to only allow people in if they had ID. I also wanted to complain about the recording of passport details and the ridiculous notion that it was discrimination to take into account how old someone looks.

Over the course of four weeks I negotiated with Democratic Services, redrafting my questions several times. On deadline day they finally told me I couldn’t speak at all because the policy was informal and had not been fully agreed by Cabinet.  So there was to be no discussion and no democratic input from either me or the elected members of Southampton City Council.

Undeterred, I put a bid in for second prize: registering to speak at Hampshire Police Authority on the subject of Passport Security in Southampton. After two weeks of discussions the Police also refused to hear me on the grounds that the policy to demand passports was not theirs. The Council jobsworths had rendered their policy untouchable.

I doubt many reading this blog will lament their inability to enjoy the delights of nightlife in Southampton but beware; these ‘initiatives’ rarely stay confined to one place.

Rest assured that short middle aged bald inspectors right across the country are looking enviously at the nightmare on the South Coast.

Big Brother Boozing is coming to a town near you soon!

By Andre Walker.

If you would be interesting in writing a guest post, please e-mail [email protected]

Posted on October 18, 2010 by Big Brother Watch Posted in Databases, ID cards, Privacy
  • http://ampers.wordpress.com Andrew Ampers Taylor

    Although I doubt it, as long as they are selling drinks at the clubs, contacting the brewers and drinks wholesalers might have got some interesting feedback?
    The problem is the young, they are more interested in enjoying themselves and by the time they grow into the sort of “concerned citizen” it will be too late.
    In Southampton, it is already too late.

  • vervet

    All part of the EUSSR master plan to bludgeon ‘da yoof’ into acceptance of ID on demand, everywhere and for every purpose.

  • Pompey geezer

    Exactly the same system operates in Guildhall Walk, Portsmouth. Investigate that…

  • John

    The reason the system operates in Portsmouth is because of the terrible violence in the City Centre.

  • Sceptical Taxpayer

    Does photocopying your passport cut violence? Also surely if this guy didn’t like the policy he should be allowed to challenge it. Its pretty sneaky how they got round the system.

  • Gareth

    “Over the course of four weeks I negotiated with Democratic Services, redrafting my questions several times. On deadline day they finally told me I couldn’t speak at all because the policy was informal and had not been fully agreed by Cabinet.
    …
    The Council jobsworths had rendered their policy untouchable.”
    I have experienced something vaguely similar on planning issues. There are reams and reams of standards and guidelines for all kinds of things, except my County Council hasn’t updated their book in years. Some of the standards have changed but the council doesn’t make the amendments available to the public.
    My local council has also pulled a fast one on permitted development rights. Before the election their website set them out in excellent detail. Since the election they have decided that as the coalition intends to reform permitted development rights the old information had to be stricken from their website despite it still being valid.

  • Liam

    In Perth, Australia, this is also standard practice for any licensed premises. I remember me and a friend being denied access to a bar that opened early to serve breakfast at 11am because we had no i.d. Every bar and club must see photo i.d before permitting entry, this is law there. The bouncers, high on power, amongst other things, are more stringent than EU border control. The scanning of passports goes one step further, they take a photo of you at the same time. This is apparently due to violence, ie they can track you down if you stab someone by looking at one of the many cctv cameras.
    All in all a relaxing night out.
    I left Perth.

  • Forks

    Don’t worry today’s scam of cyber attacks being the next Pearl harbour is their way of saying we are about to delve into your online activity in a way you never imagined.

  • Emma

    Where has common sense gone? My parents have been ID’d before in the supermarket and they are in their 50s

  • Sir Head

    I was ID’d at a club that im not only a member of but had also been going to for over twenty years. I didnt have my membership card but thought it wouldnt be a problem, it never had been before – it was – door records only go back 15 years and they couldnt find me in them (considering i joined over twenty years before i thought that was a bit obvious) and as i carried no ID (dont want to lose it when pissed) they refused me entrance coz i could be under 21 (over 21s club) at 45, bald and looking that age i argued the toss and was told that they didnt care, no id no entrance – i phoned the club and told them not to renew my membership and have so far got about 50 others to do the same – none of us will go back and we encourage people not to go to that club and so far their regular crowd has more than halved since this ridiculous policy came in – and the manager couldnt care less – so we spend our money elsewhere now

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrejpwalker Andre Walker

    “Sir Head” what ID do they ask for? I’m sure some of these places are bringing in ID cards through the backdoor.
    Andre

  • Charlie

    This is totally counterproductive. It creates unnecessary tension between punters and door staff, and doesn’t deal with the real problems.
    Under 18s are far more likely to buy alcohol from off licences and supermarkets than pubs and clubs. The trouble we see in Britain’s high streets each weekend is largely caused by drinkers of a legal age who have consumed far too much – often because these bars and clubs encourage it.
    Of course the age limit should be enforced but councils and the police should be spending more time looking at all causes of alcohol related anti-social behaviour.

  • General

    Cops order it and cops collect the info every Monday and give it to the collator,Your in a police state,wake up.

  • anon

    ‘Prove It’ cards were meant to be a way of ensuring that everyone carried ID that was not, in itself, valuable to a fraudster.
    Surely the logical answer would be to extend the age limit for Prove It cards?
    That way, the bars and clubs have their backsides covered, you have ID, you’re not at risk of fraud if you lose it.
    Have you spoken to any actual councillors in Southampton about this?

  • lisa Stephenson

    PASS cards (‘Prove it’) cards aren’t accepted in pubs in my area as they are so easily faked. you can only use them in Supermarkets but that’s because they sell them. PASS Limited which runs the PASS scheme is wholly owned by the British Retail Consortium (BRC).

  • anon

    So Lisa, what do you suggest?
    Is PASS cards are not good enough, driving licenses are only available to some, passports are strongly advised against for security reasons and discretion of the door staff and bar tenders is out the question, how exactly would you enforce age laws on drinking but allow people to actually drink?

  • anon

    Surely the risk of having all these passports floating around Southampton is bigger than the odd 17 year old having a pint.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/jrn107 John Naylor

    That’s unbelievable – I think this unofficial policy ranks along with the policy of a supermarket chain (Tesco, I think) whereby they can refuse to serve people who they know to be of an appropriate age, should they be with children. (In a misguided attempt to stop adults purchasing age restricted products for children).
    In both cases the policy is detrimental to the business trying to enforce them, but doesn’t benefit the consumer.

  • John McGeehan

    Great article mate. I can tell you that there are many nightclubs and bars right here in London who’s license ‘requires’ them to operate the club scan system. Cable on Bermondsey St and Pacha at Victoria station are two venues that spring to mind.
    I have a bar customer in Croydon who I visit regularly and one evening I was invited out by the staff to a club up the road. To be let in, I was fingerprinted and ‘registered’ on their database just to gain entry. If I wasn’t so pissed, I would not have gone through with the whole carry on and regret ever doing it now.
    This nonsense has to stop because people’s identity information will no doubt get into the wring hands one of these days. If hospitals can lose information like this then dopey nightclub operators are bound to as well.

  • Dave

    This policy makes for a very dangerous situation. Basically it keeps the smart bar scene exclusive to young people. It effectively banishes the oldies who don’t carry ID to the local pubs. Only the youngsters who know the ropes are prepared with ID. So the end result are pubs and clubs packed with young people drinking too much and no older generation to moderate the atmosphere. A bit of recipe for trouble.
    Of course in my day before ID, a similar exclusivity was enforced via dress code, so things weren’t so different then.
    May I suggest town centre drinkers without ID may like to try the gay bars, for obvious reasons they are no so keen on ID.

  • Richard Craven

    Very interesting article. I have now formed the intention to acquire some fake i.d. Does anybody know where I can get some?
    Also, whenever I buy alcohol at Tesco, I always make it my business,once the transaction is complete, to tell the staff that I am definitely going to give some of the alcohol to my under-age children.

  • Purlieu

    Buying for consumption by others – it is against the law to buy alcohol for someone under 18 to consume in a PUB or a PUBLIC PLACE.
    It is not against the law to buy alcohol for someone to consume AT HOME or other private place, the age limit there is 5 (five) years old. Yes, five.
    Come on supermarkets stop making up alternative realities.

  • Natly

    Interesting. I actually agree with the bouncers on this one – it IS discrimination to as for ID just because someone ‘looks young’ unless they look so young that it is reasonable to believe that they are under 18, NOT under 25.
    Every time I try to get into a bar / club or buy cigarettes or alcohol at the supermarket I am asked for ID, sometimes in a very rude manner (one said after I asked politely for cigarettes ‘you had better have ID’)
    I am 26, look young but definitely over 20/22, they even tell me this, I definitely look over 18, but they still have to ask me because I look under 25 and refuse the sale if I haven’t got it on me. How is this not discrimination ? They should have to ask EVERYONE regardless of age or ONLY people who they reasonably think are under 18. Not just harass the young.
    Personally I see no massive moral and public safety issue with kids 16-17 year old kids getting hold of booze from time to time anyway

  • VotingFloaterUK

    Scary stuff http://www.nightclub.co.uk/uk_products_clubscan.php
    I’ve had the misfortune of coming across one of these in Swindon recently and I certainly wasn’t given the option of witholding address details as their literature suggests.
    The website makes no attempt to hide the fact that it is a marketing tool.

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